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"Heaven Adores You"

Talk about Elliott here, in the most broadest of terms. For any ES talk that doesn't fit anywhere else.

Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby giantsteps » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:28 pm

Is that a shot of Woody from the old days playing guitar against the wall with some people near the end of the film? I did a double take...
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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby Dave_79 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:36 am

Just bought & watched the DVD. Excellent work, well done Kevin and everyone else involved. I was spellbound throughout and don't have one bad thing to say about it. I thought it was great devoting time to each era and I loved hearing the unreleased stuff and early verions of songs that ended up very different.

I loved seeing the Heatmiser stuff as I only got round to checking out their music in the last couple of years. I guess they didn't make much impact in the UK at the time as I was into a lot of American indie rock type bands and never came across them until reading about them on Elliott fan sites. So I was very pleased to hear one of my faves, Plainclothes Man, in full on the film.

The saddest thing was when Rob spoke about going back to the Basement recordings and hearing Elliott sighing or his chair creaking and sounding very much alive, and how sad it was hearing the instrumental tracks which would now never have vocals added. Its always been hard for me (and I guess many of you) to listen to Basement, for the obvious reason of course but also knowing that it was put out without Elliott's stamp of approval in terms of tracks, sequencing, etc. When I heard the unreleased Basement session tracks I was kind of angry for a while that certain songs didn't make the record but then I guess it was never going to be an easy release to put together and of course you can never please everybody. I often imagine what O So Slow, See You in Heaven, and maybe The Assassin would have been like with vocals and if Elliott would have included them in the final release, but this will sadly remain unanswered as will many other things.

Kevin, I hope the film sells well and introduces many fans to Elliott's music. . . I also hope that someday we may finally get a whole load of unreleased stuff put out officially! Looking forward to buying the soundtrack now. . . . .
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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby sonofme » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:53 am

I've watched it twice now, and really loved it the second time around too. I was more forgiving of it the second time I think, less nitpicking from mee :)

I'm also reading Autumn de Wilde's book at the moment (thank you Edinburgh libraries). Does anyone else feel that a lot of HAY is a sort of film version of de Wilde's book? Seems like a lot of the same anecdotes repeated by the same talking heads.

One of the sad things for me is that the people featured in that book and in HAY were not really around in the last couple of years of Elliott's life, having distanced themselves or having been pushed away. It makes it hard to know an awful lot about what he was like once he was virtually clean again in 2003.

It grates with me when some of them, like Jon Brion, talk about "the beginning of the end". They may have felt like that at the time, and I'm certainly not going to question their emotions and sincerity, but to me it paints a slightly too neat picture when it wasn't necessarily the case.

Not sure what others think, happy to be contradicted if people feel otherwise!

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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby solveig » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:15 pm

sonofme wrote:I've watched it twice now, and really loved it the second time around too. I was more forgiving of it the second time I think, less nitpicking from mee :)

I'm also reading Autumn de Wilde's book at the moment (thank you Edinburgh libraries). Does anyone else feel that a lot of HAY is a sort of film version of de Wilde's book? Seems like a lot of the same anecdotes repeated by the same talking heads.

One of the sad things for me is that the people featured in that book and in HAY were not really around in the last couple of years of Elliott's life, having distanced themselves or having been pushed away. It makes it hard to know an awful lot about what he was like once he was virtually clean again in 2003.

It grates with me when some of them, like Jon Brion, talk about "the beginning of the end". They may have felt like that at the time, and I'm certainly not going to question their emotions and sincerity, but to me it paints a slightly too neat picture when it wasn't necessarily the case.

Not sure what others think, happy to be contradicted if people feel otherwise!



everything but a "neat picture", or a straight trajectory
true for the last years, true way before the last years

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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby numero9 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:58 pm

The truth is you'll never get all of them together to talk. You have too many people against each other but all have their own important experiences with Elliott, no matter how we may see it. The fans and some histories squarely blame Jennifer and David as enablers, killers. You've got Valerie being thrown under the bus by Jennifer. You've got other people like Jerry Schoenkopf, Elliott's drug counselor, who are also on the periphery and maybe overlooked. Kenneth Anger, filmmaker who lived next door, who didn't seem to know Elliott much. Nelson Gary, the poet on "Coast to Coast", Steve Drozd from the Flaming Lips -- people in the recording sessions. And you've also got talking heads like Schultz who come in and muck things up even more with their "analyses" without ever knowing the guy. Everyone also projects a lot when asked, the people Elliott met around those times for the first time, their experiences were probably short-lived and when asked about him, they have to project their own analyses because frankly they didn't know him before the drugs -- and they get asked solely in the frame of Ellliott's drug use.

I feel unfortunately the only person who knows a lot about Elliott from around that immediate post-drug time is Jennifer. Regardless of whether she killed him or not, her accounts have been shaky about a lot of things and doesn't seem really open to talking, especially if the Joanna/Sam/Margaret/JJ/Neil/etc. crew are talking. So who can believe what she says? Valerie is also pretty deadly silent on this too. There's a lot of talk about how both Valerie and Jennifer were possessive of Elliott, isolating him off from people. That's true to a certain degree, but also Elliott probably gravitated more towards "bad people" (I don't like this term but I can't think of an easier one) while in his bad mental state too. Elliott went from good friends (Sam, Neil, Larry, etc.) to enablers or people stuck dealing with a bad situation with him (David, Valerie, Jennifer) to nothing but Jennifer to rekindling those old friendships. Just as he was rekindling things with everyone, that's where his story stops.

Another thing is people have moved on, it's been a long time now. Joanna probably doesn't want to be remembered solely for her relationship with Elliott. She's married and a seasoned musician in her own right. That's why we probably hear so little from her. It's a tough line to balance, so who can blame her.

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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby sonofme » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:02 am

numero9 wrote:The truth is you'll never get all of them together to talk. You have too many people against each other but all have their own important experiences with Elliott, no matter how we may see it. The fans and some histories squarely blame Jennifer and David as enablers, killers. You've got Valerie being thrown under the bus by Jennifer. You've got other people like Jerry Schoenkopf, Elliott's drug counselor, who are also on the periphery and maybe overlooked. Kenneth Anger, filmmaker who lived next door, who didn't seem to know Elliott much. Nelson Gary, the poet on "Coast to Coast", Steve Drozd from the Flaming Lips -- people in the recording sessions. And you've also got talking heads like Schultz who come in and muck things up even more with their "analyses" without ever knowing the guy. Everyone also projects a lot when asked, the people Elliott met around those times for the first time, their experiences were probably short-lived and when asked about him, they have to project their own analyses because frankly they didn't know him before the drugs -- and they get asked solely in the frame of Ellliott's drug use.

I feel unfortunately the only person who knows a lot about Elliott from around that immediate post-drug time is Jennifer. Regardless of whether she killed him or not, her accounts have been shaky about a lot of things and doesn't seem really open to talking, especially if the Joanna/Sam/Margaret/JJ/Neil/etc. crew are talking. So who can believe what she says? Valerie is also pretty deadly silent on this too. There's a lot of talk about how both Valerie and Jennifer were possessive of Elliott, isolating him off from people. That's true to a certain degree, but also Elliott probably gravitated more towards "bad people" (I don't like this term but I can't think of an easier one) while in his bad mental state too. Elliott went from good friends (Sam, Neil, Larry, etc.) to enablers or people stuck dealing with a bad situation with him (David, Valerie, Jennifer) to nothing but Jennifer to rekindling those old friendships. Just as he was rekindling things with everyone, that's where his story stops.

Another thing is people have moved on, it's been a long time now. Joanna probably doesn't want to be remembered solely for her relationship with Elliott. She's married and a seasoned musician in her own right. That's why we probably hear so little from her. It's a tough line to balance, so who can blame her.


Thanks for your detailed response. Very good point about Joanna and others, not wanting to be remembered only as someone in Elliott's life. I wonder, given how much time has passed, whether the opportunities to get so many folk together to talk about things have become and will become less available. In that sense, I think HAY is a big achievement because it's hard to think that another film could be made about Elliott now without having to get the same folk to repeat themselves.

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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby eddiebrock » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:08 am

I think the biggest thing is that for the first time, we had a project that truly and totally focused on the music as the primary focus, with his life playing out in the background.

I would love to write a companion book to the film if Kevin and Larry would ever let me, in the sense I also would love to only focus on the music. Basically do what WTS should have done with his book without all the commentary and psychology analysis.

In the interim, I guess I can finish the song list....*sigh*...back to my day job!

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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby sonofme » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:58 am

eddiebrock wrote:In the interim, I guess I can finish the song list....*sigh*...back to my day job!


Keep it up, it's amazing! I check it frequently for progress ;)
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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby Hannah » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:49 pm

numero9 wrote:The truth is you'll never get all of them together to talk. You have too many people against each other but all have their own important experiences with Elliott, no matter how we may see it. The fans and some histories squarely blame Jennifer and David as enablers, killers. You've got Valerie being thrown under the bus by Jennifer. You've got other people like Jerry Schoenkopf, Elliott's drug counselor, who are also on the periphery and maybe overlooked. Kenneth Anger, filmmaker who lived next door, who didn't seem to know Elliott much. Nelson Gary, the poet on "Coast to Coast", Steve Drozd from the Flaming Lips -- people in the recording sessions. And you've also got talking heads like Schultz who come in and muck things up even more with their "analyses" without ever knowing the guy. Everyone also projects a lot when asked, the people Elliott met around those times for the first time, their experiences were probably short-lived and when asked about him, they have to project their own analyses because frankly they didn't know him before the drugs -- and they get asked solely in the frame of Ellliott's drug use.

I feel unfortunately the only person who knows a lot about Elliott from around that immediate post-drug time is Jennifer. Regardless of whether she killed him or not, her accounts have been shaky about a lot of things and doesn't seem really open to talking, especially if the Joanna/Sam/Margaret/JJ/Neil/etc. crew are talking. So who can believe what she says? Valerie is also pretty deadly silent on this too. There's a lot of talk about how both Valerie and Jennifer were possessive of Elliott, isolating him off from people. That's true to a certain degree, but also Elliott probably gravitated more towards "bad people" (I don't like this term but I can't think of an easier one) while in his bad mental state too. Elliott went from good friends (Sam, Neil, Larry, etc.) to enablers or people stuck dealing with a bad situation with him (David, Valerie, Jennifer) to nothing but Jennifer to rekindling those old friendships. Just as he was rekindling things with everyone, that's where his story stops.

Another thing is people have moved on, it's been a long time now. Joanna probably doesn't want to be remembered solely for her relationship with Elliott. She's married and a seasoned musician in her own right. That's why we probably hear so little from her. It's a tough line to balance, so who can blame her.


Thank you for taking the time to lay out the logistics it helps fill in some gaps.
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Re: "Heaven Adores You"

Postby mangonebula » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:50 am

I watched the documentary recently and was inspired to make this mix of Elliott's Heatmiser work that you can listen to here:

http://mangonebula.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... k-and.html

Doing some research into his life got me thinking about some interesting things, so I wrote a post that explores that overlooked period of his life. I hope you are into it.

Thanks!

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